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{"contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
How DNA Testing Is Changing Fatherhood
News Type: Opinion — Seeded on Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:23 AM EST
Article Source: The New York Times{"contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
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- Public Discussion (27)
{"commentId":10830193,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}
Mike’s conundrum is increasingly playing out in courts across the country, a result of political, social and technological shifts. Stricter federal rules have pressed states to chase down fathers and hold them responsible for children born outside of marriage, a category that includes 40 percent of all births. At the same time, DNA tests have become easier, cheaper and more reliable. Swiping a few cheek cells and paying a couple hundred dollars can answer the question that has plagued men since the dawn of time: Am I really the father?
One hundred and twenty-two years ago, the playwright August Strindberg meditated on this quandary. “The Father” is the story of a cavalry captain whose wife hints that he might not be the father of the daughter he adores. Consumed with doubt, he rages at his wife: “I have worked and slaved for you, your child, your mother, your servants . . . because I thought myself the father of your child. This is the commonest kind of theft, the most brutal slavery. I have had 17 years of penal servitude and have been innocent.”
Without a biological tie, the captain cries, his paternal love is without foundation. But even as he laments that his daughter may not be his, the captain seeks consolation from his childhood nursemaid. With his mind unraveling, he rests his head in her lap and speaks of the comfort of “mother” — because that was the nursemaid’s role, biology notwithstanding.
{"commentId":10830193,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
- 2 votes
#1 - Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:24 AM EST{"commentId":10831219,"authorDomain":"silver163"}
you can just here the feminists screaming at the injustices, oh wait that's the wind.
the thing with paternity tests is that even if you prove that the child isn't yours, you still have to pay child support cause you were married to the woman who got pregnant.
in denmark they solve the problem with child support payments. if the mother wants to collect child support she first must get DNA evidence to prove the child is the man she claims it is.
{"commentId":10831219,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"silver163"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":10831326,"authorDomain":"alkimija"}
I'm a staunch feminist and the injustices I see in this article are of men forced to pay for children who aren't theirs, people lied to by their partners, and relationships between children and adults damaged and severed by unreasonable legal demands on behalf of the state.
As for paying child support automatically merely because a man was "married to the woman who got pregnant" - I don't receive a dime in child support from my ex-husband. And he is the father... I wouldn't have any problem with a DNA test to prove that if need be.
{"commentId":10831326,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"alkimija"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":10831508,"authorDomain":"silver163"}
so then what's your point? i still see no feminist groups in support of this really, Women Now a group here in Chicago has even made a press release some time ago when an issue that big came up that they don't care.
so you got a child and don't get child support? so then you didn't fill out the paperwork...what's your point?
{"commentId":10831508,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"silver163"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10831633,"authorDomain":"alkimija"}
What's my point? Perhaps that the few feminist groups which might catch your attention don't speak for all feminists.
so you got a child and don't get child support? so then you didn't fill out the paperwork...
Uh... you're being awfully presumptive and insulting. As for "paperwork" I had ample paperwork. My ex-husband didn't want to pay child support. I saw no point in pressuring him to accept a responsibility he was incapable of honouring in more than a few ways.
{"commentId":10831633,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"alkimija"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":10831724,"authorDomain":"silver163"}
thing is with people when you put them in an awkward situation they restrain back a bit. anyways point me to a group who supports changes to child support?
that's your decision...
{"commentId":10831724,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"silver163"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10839388,"authorDomain":"alkimija"}
I'm not exactly a huge fan of groups in general. So, sorry, but I wouldn't know in which direction to point you.
{"commentId":10839388,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"alkimija"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10830350,"authorDomain":"skylark246"}
There is a weird situation occurring where I live. This woman dated a particular man for ten years. When she became pregnant, he dropped her and said the child was not his. DNA testing proved it was 99.9 % certain the child was his. He then declared it could be his son's who has the same DNA. So the courts are making the son pay child support.
{"commentId":10830350,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"skylark246"}
- 2 votes
#2 - Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:34 AM EST{"commentId":10830471,"authorDomain":"alkimija"}
I'm all for DNA testing to verify fatherhood in suspicious cases - but what if a test isn't done properly or is faulty and gives the wrong results? Any DNA testing should probably be verified by three independent reputable labs before being accepted.
There's a lot of guys who skip out on supporting their children by falsely claiming that their wives/girlfriends were cheating on them. DNA testing would help these abandoned women and childen out as much as it would help out men.
Do you have kids, Scott?
{"commentId":10830471,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"alkimija"}
- 2 votes
#3 - Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:41 AM EST{"commentId":10830923,"authorDomain":"snvcogar"}
Ya wanna start another Civil War?
If so, get Congress to declare they are going to enact a Law mandating everyone be DNA tested to prove their biological parents are who they say they are.
{"commentId":10830923,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"snvcogar"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10830987,"authorDomain":"alkimija"}
What an odd comment. I don't think anyone was talking about making DNA paternity tests mandatory.
{"commentId":10830987,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"alkimija"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":10832517,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}
Do you have kids, Scott?
Nope but I work with many friends kids and play reguarly with my nieces (i kick butt at hide and seek though it's hard to hide when you're my height)
ment. I don't think anyone was talking about making DNA paternity tests mandat
actually i seeded this piece after reading a colleague's facebook post suggesting the solution to this mess IS mandatory testing. I'd only suggest that for cases where paternity was in question or claimed years after the fact.
{"commentId":10832517,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10839504,"authorDomain":"alkimija"}
I think it would be a good idea if it was recommended for new parents. DNA testing doesn't only have to establish paternity, it can identify diseases and might actually save lives. In the case of child support, however, it might spare a lot of people - both women and men - a lot of grief.
{"commentId":10839504,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"alkimija"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10842263,"authorDomain":"menmy2"}
If my kids have children outside of marriage, I will insist on paternity testing, especially if they are still teens and dependant on me. I have a son amd a daughter and it is equally important in both cases.
{"commentId":10842263,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"menmy2"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10862004,"authorDomain":"alkimija"}
If when they're adults and not dependent on you, and had kids outside of marriage... would you still insist?
{"commentId":10862004,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"alkimija"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10864617,"authorDomain":"menmy2"}
I may not be able to insist, but I hope my power of persuasion will still be effective.
{"commentId":10864617,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"menmy2"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10831327,"authorDomain":"dpgiii"}
One thing is for sure - if you get the courts involved you've already lost. Thank goodness our Federal and State government elected officials are mostly lawyers or the law would be straightforward and understandable for all parties involved in any dispute.
It does seem to me (I am not a lawyer) that since all states now require paternity-acknowledgment forms to be distributed at every birth by unwed mothers that DNA testing should be required for all births and all parents.
{"commentId":10831327,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"dpgiii"}
- 3 votes
#4 - Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:39 PM EST{"commentId":10831355,"authorDomain":"alkimija"}
Quite agreed...
{"commentId":10831355,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"alkimija"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10832225,"authorDomain":"CarlZup"}
A woman can know without a doubt that a child is hers, putting aside any scenarios of hospital foul-ups of switched babies of course. But, a man can have doubts and secret fears that a son or daughter is not truly his.
It was a matter of trust in what a woman tells him that was initially the only thing he had to go on. These days a simple test can prove without a doubt and laws should be enacted to protect the rights of all persons concerned:
Laws that would include the biological mother and father as well as a parent that may not be the biological one, but still a person that the child has come to know as their parent.
{"commentId":10832225,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"CarlZup"}
- 2 votes
#5 - Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:37 PM EST{"commentId":10841618,"authorDomain":"snvcogar"}
In the case of child support, however, it might spare a lot of people - both women and men - a lot of grief.
And in a lot of Court cases the Judge has ordered the husband “to pay” and/or ”to continuing paying” even though DNA testing proved him not the biological father.
A woman can know without a doubt that a child is hers,
Well, most of the time anyway, but sometimes even the mother isn’t sure.
{"commentId":10841618,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"snvcogar"}
{"commentId":10841825,"authorDomain":"CarlZup"}
As I stated: "putting aside any scenarios of hospital foul-ups..."
{"commentId":10841825,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"CarlZup"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10866012,"authorDomain":"snvcogar"}
Well, that's fine, but I was not referring to any hospital foul-ups.
{"commentId":10866012,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"snvcogar"}
{"commentId":10872627,"authorDomain":"CarlZup"}
A woman can know without a doubt that a child is hers,
Well, most of the time anyway, but sometimes even the mother isn’t sure.
So enlighten me SamC, how can a mother not be sure?
{"commentId":10872627,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"CarlZup"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10885204,"authorDomain":"snvcogar"}
So enlighten me SamC, how can a mother not be sure?
Ha, whenever she has sex with two or more males during the "time window" that she can be impregnated.
Either consensual or non-consensula sex, doesn't matter.
"Only the mother knows, but sometimes she is not sure".
Or, "Mommy's baby, daddy's maybe".
Cheers
{"commentId":10885204,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"snvcogar"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10887824,"authorDomain":"CarlZup"}
Oh, I see what you are getting at. I was referring to the fact that a mother can know for sure that it is HER baby and you were talking about her not knowing who the DADDY was.
Still, I maintain that a woman who bears a child can know without a doubt it is HER CHILD (once again putting aside hospital screw-ups of course) because it came from her.
As for her not knowing who the daddy is, I was NOT talking about that. Read my initial post again, I thought it was pretty clear what I wrote.
A woman can know without a doubt that a child is hers,
Look at the last word in the above statement again. If you are still confused, I don't have the time or patience to make it any clearer.
On the other hand if you are not confused, then you must be purposely arguing just for the sake of it, and that would end this conversation anyways.
{"commentId":10887824,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"CarlZup"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":10894181,"authorDomain":"snvcogar"}
You are right, Carl, my mistake. I apologize.
But I could CYA by stating: Not if her child was abducted right after birth and mother and (potential) child were not reunited until years later. But that was yesteryear, not today with DNA testing. Cheers
{"commentId":10894181,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"snvcogar"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10832574,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}
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{"commentId":10832574,"threadId":"730394","contentId":"3531089","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
#6 - Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:05 PM EST{"canLink":false,"threadId":"730394","isPrivate":false}
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