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SCOTT (SCOOP) BUTKI
A cynical idealist; To Read Me Is to Know Me (Mostly)
Articles Posted: 1176; Links Seeded: 7571
Member Since: 2/2007Last Seen: 11/28/2009
Member Since: 2/2007Last Seen: 11/28/2009
25 Votes
66 Comments
Fact Checker: Did Obama "lie" about Ayers?
News Type: Event — Seeded on Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:29 PM EDT
Article Source: The Washington Postadvertisement
A good examination of the issue. Also Slate has a good piece on Ayers over here. Meanwhile John Lewis is condemning the McCain's recent sowing of hate to which I say Amen.
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- Scott (Scoop) Butki's Column, All of Newsvine
- Groups: 2008: Barack Obama, 2008: John McCain, ObamaVine, Political Analysis
- Regions: Washington DC
- Public Discussion (66)
- 2008: Barack Obama
- 2008: John McCain
- ObamaVine
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32
8.0
{"commentId":3439511,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}
The McCain video--it does not appear to have aired anywhere as a commercial ad yet--says that Obama "worked with the terrorist Bill Ayers." A casual viewer might easily conclude that the connection between the two men dates back to the time when Ayers was involved in terrorist activities, which is not the case. As Obama frequently points out, he was eight years old when Ayers helped found the Weather Underground. The Illinois senator has repeatedly condemned the terrorist actions committed by Ayers and his fellow Weathermen.
Up until now, McCain has left the work of slamming Obama's "terrorist connection" to surrogates, particularly his running mate, Sarah Palin. Addressing a Florida campaign rally earlier this week, Palin depicted Obama as "someone who sees America as imperfect enough to pal around with terrorists who target their own country." McCain, by contrast, has preferred to raise questions about Obama's honesty and trustworthiness. Interviewed by Sean Hannity on Fox News on Thursday night, he said the following:
{"commentId":3439511,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
- 4 votes
#1 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:30 PM EDT{"commentId":3439596,"authorDomain":"headinthegame"}
he's an unrepentant domestic terrorist....
{"commentId":3439596,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"headinthegame"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":3439675,"authorDomain":"rdonaldsnyder"}
The idea that Barack has somehow lied about his connection to Ayers is a completely made up lie by the GOP. He never has lied about or tried to hide it.
Good seed.
{"commentId":3439675,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"rdonaldsnyder"}
- 15 votes
{"commentId":3439719,"authorDomain":"headinthegame"}
he hasn't renounced this guy. he wouldn't have renounced Jeremiah Wright either if he hadn't been called on it. you see, Barack doesn't see a problem working with America haters...
{"commentId":3439719,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"headinthegame"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":3439784,"authorDomain":"rnjhyer"}
This is almost as bad as talking about the best way to skin a polar bear. Neither has anything to do with what is happening today.
{"commentId":3439784,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"rnjhyer"}
- 8 votes
{"commentId":3439817,"authorDomain":"LonoKemp"}
he's an unrepentant domestic terrorist....
-and McCain associates with unrepentant supporters of foreign terrorism AND nazi sympathizers. See both sides can play at this BS game.
{"commentId":3439817,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"LonoKemp"}
- 13 votes
{"commentId":3439866,"authorDomain":"headinthegame"}
what Obama has done with Jeremiah Wright has no parallel in John McCain's life
{"commentId":3439866,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"headinthegame"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":3440038,"authorDomain":"LonoKemp"}
Youre right, except for McCain actively seeking out Hagee's endorsement and referring to Parsley as his "spiritual advisor." whoops.
{"commentId":3440038,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"LonoKemp"}
- 15 votes
{"commentId":3440230,"authorDomain":"rdonaldsnyder"}
he hasn't renounced this guy
Yes he has and he has condemned his activities in the 1960's.
{"commentId":3440230,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"rdonaldsnyder"}
- 13 votes
{"commentId":3440384,"authorDomain":"JoulesBeef"}
mccain hasnt renouced hagae..
come on head.. seriously man you can play the game at a more mature and from a high ground than this. This crap is a desperate joke and you have to be mentally challenged to not see that.
It's extremely offesive to the american peopel that you and your party want to "turn the page" on the real issues and problems peopel face and instead go back on your words for a clean fight and go back to the rovian tricks of the past that we are all tryign to ge away from and go back to fear mongering and tryign to devide this great country of ours.
The american peopel ae about to "turn the page" on the gop.. and you can thank yourself and the spreading of hate that spews from your fingers.
{"commentId":3440384,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"JoulesBeef"}
- 13 votes
{"commentId":3440413,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}
Donald, thanks.
Head, Did you read this prior Slate piece which talked about how some stuff Ayers worked on has been endorsed by Bush?
By the late 1990s, such ideas had become part of the national dialogue. Approaches that Ayers helped publicize were being adopted in several states—including Texas under then-Gov. George W. Bush. Juvenile justice was, in fact, a cornerstone of Bush's "compassionate conservative" agenda. In his 2000 acceptance speech, he spoke movingly of a 15-year-old African-American boy he had met at a juvenile jail in Marlin, Texas, who had committed a "grown-up crime" but was still a "little boy": "If that boy in Marlin believes he is trapped and worthless and hopeless—if he believes his life has no value—then other lives have no value to him, and we are all diminished." The passage could have come directly from Ayers' book.
If we're going to do guilt by association then what about McCain becoming bosum bodies with Falwell, Robertson, etc people who previously, rightly, called "agents of intolerance" for their spreading of hate and prejudice?
{"commentId":3440413,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
- 12 votes
{"commentId":3440964,"authorDomain":"Mars313"}
he's an unrepentant domestic terrorist....
Headinthegame, then why is he a free man? I thought we locked up terrorists. So is this proof that the GOP can't keep us safe from terrorism?
{"commentId":3440964,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"Mars313"}
- 9 votes
{"commentId":3441752,"authorDomain":"UDbmas"}
Headinthegame
what Obama has done with Jeremiah Wright has no parallel in John McCain's life
Round 1: Hagee and Parsley
The Rev. John Hagee, whose political support Sen. John McCain sought, has said that the Catholic Church is a "great whore" and that Nazi Germany "operated on God's behalf" as part of a divine plan to drive the Jews to Israel.
The Rev. Rod Parsley, whose political support McCain also sought, has described Islam as "the mouthpiece of a conspiracy of spiritual evil" and an "anti-Christ religion that intends through violence to conquer the world."
Round 2: Jerry Falwell, whom McCain once took a courageous position by calling him an "agent of intolerance," but backtracked because he needs the CC vote, even delivering a key-note address at a graduation for Falwell's Liberty Univerty.
Two days after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, during an appearance on Pat Robertson's television show, Falwell claimed that the attack was God's judgment on America's immorality.
"I really believe that the pagans and the abortionists and the feminists and the gays and the lesbians, who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way--all of them who try to secularize America--I point the finger in their face and say, 'You helped this happen.'"
McCain's associations in ALL areas are far and away more troubling than even the worst of Obama's.
{"commentId":3441752,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"UDbmas"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":3442171,"authorDomain":"faminchin"}
change, change, yes we can, change change, your racist, change change, yes we can......like a bunch of zombies
{"commentId":3442171,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"faminchin"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":3442682,"authorDomain":"comeonpeople"}
Udbamas, I'm sure I'll get deleted as this post is off topic (sorry) but I just wanted to point out a couple of things. One is that protestant believers like Hagee do not believe the Catholic Church is a "true" Christian church (and admittedly, you could look back through hundreds of years and see some major problems within it--but it's not my place to decide) and some Biblical scholars believe that the passage in Revelation speaking of "the Great Whore that sits upon many waters" (something like that, correct me if I'm wrong) IS indeed the Catholic Church. I haven't come to a full understanding of Revelation yet to know what I believe about every passage.
Also, what Parsley said about Islam probably came after the acknowledgement of the terrorists that they intended to "use the sword to turn every person towards the Islam nation." You can't argue that that is not a violent stance to take on your religion. Also, if you look at every part of life as God's divine intervention, and not circumstance, then yes, the Holocaust would have been needed to bring the Jews back to Israel (and is even talked about in the book of Isaiah.)
Sorry to get off topic, but just like Rev. Wright probably meant his sermons in a certain way, these men probably meant theirs in a certain way as well. Just thought I'd offer some perspective (not necessarily agreement).
{"commentId":3442682,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"comeonpeople"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":3442848,"authorDomain":"wood-s"}
Headinthegame:
"what Obama has done with Jeremiah Wright has no parallel in John McCain's life."
OH! YES! IT! DOES!
Go look up the Oregon Citizens' Alliance. Despite their benign sounding name, they are a very nasty, racist group that supports abortion clinic bombings. John McCain attended one of their meetings, and sat smiling in approval as a speaker praised a woman who was on trial for shooting and wounding a doctor and setting bombs at several other clinics. And as for Sarah Palin and the Alaska Independence Party, just go check a few facts about their founder Joe Vogler and then try to tell me the Palins haven't "palled around" with domestic terrorists.
{"commentId":3442848,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"wood-s"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":3439930,"authorDomain":"clariflutist73"}
Well as far as I'm concerned, John McCain is in lock step with the biggest terrorist the world has ever known. George W. Bush.
{"commentId":3439930,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"clariflutist73"}
- 15 votes
#2 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:06 PM EDT{"commentId":3439940,"authorDomain":"headinthegame"}
ok...i respectfully disagree. McCain is not in lock step with Bush on torture at all...
{"commentId":3439940,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"headinthegame"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":3440160,"authorDomain":"sperrys"}
headinthegaime- by definition, McCain is the terrorist. His campaign is a domestic terror machine...terrorists fight their wars through fear...that is exactly what he is doing....you should distance yourself from him now...otherwise, your support of him 40 years from now may cause your character to be called into question too
{"commentId":3440160,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"sperrys"}
- 14 votes
{"commentId":3440171,"authorDomain":"clariflutist73"}
What? I didn't mention torture.
{"commentId":3440171,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"clariflutist73"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":3440243,"authorDomain":"rdonaldsnyder"}
McCain opposed torture, but in the end voted to allow water-boarding to help get Bush's endorsement.
{"commentId":3440243,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"rdonaldsnyder"}
- 12 votes
{"commentId":3440308,"authorDomain":"clariflutist73"}
McCain opposed torture, but in the end voted to allow water-boarding to help get Bush's endorsement.
McFlipFlopHippityHop
{"commentId":3440308,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"clariflutist73"}
- 11 votes
{"commentId":3440438,"authorDomain":"JoulesBeef"}
lol head where ya been.. mccain totally floped on torture.. where was mccain with bush's signign statement? silent
he voted agaisnt the ban on water baordign and supported bush's threat of a veto on the bill.
{"commentId":3440438,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"JoulesBeef"}
- 9 votes
{"commentId":3442338,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}
that's your idea of defending mccain on this issue - to say mccain isn't in "lockstep" with bush on torture?
Ok, so my rebuttal should then be that obama is not in lockstep with ayers.. heck, modern day ayers isn't even in lockstep with 60s ayers.
{"commentId":3442338,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":3444961,"authorDomain":"irene498"}
Did you notice in the entire biography-fest that was the RNC, not once did anyone who graphically and repeatedly described McCain's POW experience, use the word 'torture."
{"commentId":3444961,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"irene498"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":3444975,"authorDomain":"brkfstclblvr"}
Ok, so my rebuttal should then be that obama is not in lockstep with ayers.. heck, modern day ayers isn't even in lockstep with 60s ayers.
Scott, I hate to say it, but you just negated your point there.
{"commentId":3444975,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"brkfstclblvr"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":3451049,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}
Scott, I hate to say it, but you just negated your point there.
How so?
{"commentId":3451049,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
{"commentId":3440250,"authorDomain":"susibv"}
McCain is lost in the Vietnam jungles of his mind, fighting imaginary wars and battles to satisfy the rage he's trapped in.
Now he's a heartbeat away from taking those battles and that rage an unleashing it towards all of us.....especially those he deems unworthy of being call patriots, Americans.
If there is anything to be afraid of is a man who is as erratic and mentally unstable as John McCain is and his running mate is no different.
{"commentId":3440250,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"susibv"}
- 11 votes
#3 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:33 PM EDT{"commentId":3440280,"authorDomain":"christian-venese"}
why do we keep talking about this...hurry up Nov 4th
{"commentId":3440280,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"christian-venese"}
- 3 votes
#4 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:35 PM EDT{"commentId":3440539,"authorDomain":"margarethageman"}
Great article. But don't you think if there was any possibility of Ayers being a domestic terrorist all these years that the CIA would have been all over him and his family. Also, read rolling stone magazines current story on McNasty. Very well written and telling!
{"commentId":3440539,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"margarethageman"}
- 7 votes
#5 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:00 PM EDT{"commentId":3440756,"authorDomain":"JoulesBeef"}
calling him a terrorist dillutes the plight of real victims of terror.
I know some think i support what he did, but what i support was he ried to keep peopel from gettign hurt. He committed crimes, that is not in dispute, he felt that we worth the punishment to commit. But simply blowing up empty government property and still warning peopel first.. is hardly a "terrorist". stupid vandal, rebel, crazy hippy.. what ever but to compare him to the likes of the 9-11 hijackers or the palistiian suicide bombers .
if someoen comes to tear down yoru neighbourhood and you sneak in at night and damage the bull dozers.. that is criminal but not terror.
{"commentId":3440756,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"JoulesBeef"}
- 9 votes
{"commentId":3442433,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}
Also, read rolling stone magazines current story on McNasty. Very well written and telling!
the rolling stone piece IS good. It is here.
{"commentId":3442433,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":3442468,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}
calling him a terrorist dillutes the plight of real victims of terror.
Agreed. Terrorism, to me at least, is one of those words like holocaust and genocide that should be used sparingly otherwise it dilutes the meaning. Maybe I need to add terrorist to this list
{"commentId":3442468,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":3440603,"authorDomain":"ludmila"}
{"commentId":3440603,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"ludmila"}
- 4 votes
#6 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:06 PM EDT{"commentId":3440723,"authorDomain":"christian-venese"}
wow....u people..come on nov 4th...dayum
{"commentId":3440723,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"christian-venese"}
- 1 vote
#7 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:17 PM EDT{"commentId":3440928,"authorDomain":"JoulesBeef"}
you hear the unrepentant terrorist a lot.Bill Ayers check his wiki or research some on them. first the "unrepentant" comes from when in 2001 he said that they didnt do enough to stop the Vietnam war.he started his protest life off picketing a pizza palce for not serving African americans.some of his radical education ideas were schools without grades, promoting cooperation instead of competition. And part of the whole self esteem thing. They warned everyone they bombed, with evacuation instructions. He blew up a statue.. He put a bomb next ot the pentagon and blew a water main.. he us claimed it had to halt a bombing raid for several days due to that and he was proud.His girl friend and best friend wee killed while putting together a bomb. They were the only people injured or killed by Ayers group. A separate weatherman sect and the balck panthers were investigated over a bombing that did cause a death in ny but no one was ever charged and the case remains un solved.anyways just the basic info i thought you should know because of the harsh feelings people get over the term "terrorist." you may still feel he is one but i think it's important you at least understand the level of terrorism.
It was also a different age and we had a draft.. and veitnam had 10 times as many US deaths as iraq. with 2/3rds the us population.
{"commentId":3440928,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"JoulesBeef"}
- 6 votes
#8 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:38 PM EDT{"commentId":3442195,"authorDomain":"celiaarm"}
It was also a different age and we had a draft
That's so true and none of us wanted to die next for a war that had no justification.
{"commentId":3442195,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"celiaarm"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":3441282,"authorDomain":"stan-smith"}
Bill Ayers failed attempt at sabotage pales into insignificance when compared with the destruction of the American Economy and global image by the failed GOP policies over 8 years. The financial markets in the free world are in disarray as a result!
These policies have come close to doing what terroists have threatened to do. Will anyone be charged?
{"commentId":3441282,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"stan-smith"}
- 3 votes
#9 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:17 PM EDT{"commentId":3441395,"authorDomain":"faminchin"}
Excellent piece. A profound example of how the media is willing to do anything, including distorting the truth, to help get Obama elected. I found the comments amusing. Although the article was defending Obama, the comments show that people aren't buying it. It's the information age, people can find the facts, without using a fact-finder these days. And with fact-finders like this, who can trust them anymore?
I don't believe anybody is trying to say that Obama was a member of this terrorist group, or that he has planted any bombs. But we all know that Ayers is more than, "just a guy in my neighborhood".
{"commentId":3441395,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"faminchin"}
- 4 votes
#10 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:28 PM EDT{"commentId":3442292,"authorDomain":"celiaarm"}
I don't believe anybody is trying to say that Obama was a member of this terrorist group, or that he has planted any bombs.
WTF to do think they are trying to say then????
{"commentId":3442292,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"celiaarm"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":3442456,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}
mike, Glad you liked it. I think fact checks like these are invaluable
{"commentId":3442456,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":3443218,"authorDomain":"faminchin"}
CC....the point is #1...that Ayers is more than, "just a guy in the neighborhood". Other points are that Obama either supports or believes as these associates do...or why would he be so close to them and why would they have launched his political career.
Did you know that Obama was a member of the "New Party"? Google it and see what they believe. Check out the stuff these two boards that Obama and Ayers were on together believe and did. Do we need a president that believes or supports this kind of crap?
{"commentId":3443218,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"faminchin"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":3443459,"authorDomain":"UDbmas"}
Seems like "common sense" means choosing to believe hype over facts. Or perhaps "common sense" means shopping around until the "facts" are found that fit whatever the right-wingers like Hannity, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, and Rove want everyone to believe.
And with fact-finders like this, who can trust them anymore?
Here, perhaps a few more "fact checkers" will help:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he_lied_about_bill_ayers.html
Voters may differ in how they see Ayers, or how they see Obama's interactions with him. We're making no judgment calls on those matters. What we object to are the McCain-Palin campaign's attempts to sway voters--in ads and on the stump--with false and misleading statements about the relationship, which was never very close.Obama never "lied" about this, just as he never bragged about it. The foundation they both worked with was hardly "radical." And Ayers is more than a former "terrorist," he's also a well-known figure in the field of education.
http://newsbreaks.infotoday.com/nbReader.asp?ArticleId=39759
This attack is false, but it's more than that--it's malicious. It unfairly tars not just Obama, but all the other prominent, well-respected Chicagoans who also volunteered their time to the foundation. They came from all walks of life and allpolitical backgrounds, and there's ample evidence their mission was nothing more than improving ailing public schools in Chicago. Yet in the heat of a political campaign they have been accused of financing radicalism. That's Pants on Fire wrong.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/05/fact-check-is-obama-palling-around-with-terrorists/
Verdict: False.There is no indication that Ayers and Obama are now "palling around," or that they have had an ongoing relationship in the past three years. Also, there is nothing to suggest that Ayers is now involved in terrorist activity or that other Obama associates are.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."-- Daniel Patrick Moynihan
{"commentId":3443459,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"UDbmas"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":3443460,"authorDomain":"rnjhyer"}
Does anybody that posts this about the boards Obama was on ever research who else was on the boards, and who put up the money. One of the boards was financed by the Annesbergs, Republicans, conservatives also sat on the board. For goodness sakes Ayers was citizen of the year in Chicago in 1997, active in the Chicago area politics, when Obama met the man he had absolutely no reason to question his background. Ayers was never convicted of a crime, right or wrong, the first time Obama probably heard about Ayers complete background was when Ayers wrote his book in 2001.
for the sake of the country and your own sanity, do some research.
Tell me why I should vote for McCain, and please not because he is a hero who spent 5 1/2 years in the Hanoi Hilton, or 21 years in the Navy. Does he have a economic plan, vision of how to move this country out of the foreign relations mess we are in, don't give me this I don't care what other countries think.
When you meet someone do you do a background check, if you are being introdued and know that the person you are meeting is a professional and respected in the community.
{"commentId":3443460,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"rnjhyer"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":3443778,"authorDomain":"faminchin"}
Here is how the "truth squads" and "fact-checkers" work. If your really interested in the facts, here's what CNN, who is totally in the tank for Obama, sees it.
{"commentId":3443778,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"faminchin"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":3443904,"authorDomain":"rnjhyer"}
Common sense Mike
Your point. Find something that shows Obama and Ayers and best buds, everything I have been able to find says the same thing.
{"commentId":3443904,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"rnjhyer"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":3445904,"authorDomain":"brkfstclblvr"}
I have plenty of good friends who's pasts I honestly don't know.
The things Ayers did are not really something you bring up over dinner.
{"commentId":3445904,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"brkfstclblvr"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":3453045,"authorDomain":"faminchin"}
If you really think that Obama didn't know about Ayer's past, you should do a little research. Numerous news articles were printed while they were on the same boards, including Ayers famous interview where he said he wished he had done more bombing.......so unless Obama doesn't read the newspapers......he had to have knows and just didn't care.
{"commentId":3453045,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"faminchin"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":3453106,"authorDomain":"headinthegame"}
Obama clearly knew...he didn't care. you see, Obama is OK hanging out with people who hate America...because he hates it too. he probably thinks like a lot of other people here, that we're a nation of bigots...
{"commentId":3453106,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"headinthegame"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":3453315,"authorDomain":"UDbmas"}
Common Sense Mike & headinthegame:
I guess you don't care about facts guys? That's okay. I am absolutely sure you've been exposed to them. But keep up the hate. Apparently that's all you have left to cling to.
Thanks for playing, here's your sign.
{"commentId":3453315,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"UDbmas"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":3453408,"authorDomain":"brkfstclblvr"}
Common Sense, and Mike...I truly don't think Obama knew about Ayers past until it was too late.
But what I don't like to do is:
1) Assume Obama knew Ayers past (because really we don't know);
2) Let Ayers' past become part of Obama's mindframe; and
3) Disregard this as a political ploy because McPalin are behind.
{"commentId":3453408,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"brkfstclblvr"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":3454873,"authorDomain":"headinthegame"}
seriously, there was no way someone as smart as Obama didn't know about Ayers past. No Way. He knew and didn't care....because he's just like Ayers, an America hater.
{"commentId":3454873,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"headinthegame"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":3455073,"authorDomain":"UDbmas"}
headinthegame keeps spamming the same comment. What's in the CoH about that?
{"commentId":3455073,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"UDbmas"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":3455126,"authorDomain":"headinthegame"}
it wasn't the same comments man; it was different....we're trying to have a conversation here...you really think obama didn't know about the famous bill ayers? if he didn't, he's not harvard prof.
{"commentId":3455126,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"headinthegame"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":3489216,"authorDomain":"brkfstclblvr"}
Heading the game,
Do you know the political past of every single person you've encountered in your life? And PS, I have done extensive research on this topic, as I do every topic. I don't assume relationships exist when the evidence shows there may not have been.
And yes UDbmas, what he said was inflammatory, so I reported it, and you should too.
{"commentId":3489216,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"brkfstclblvr"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":3441401,"authorDomain":"stan-smith"}
{"commentId":3442605,"authorDomain":"susibv"}
The only bombs Obama has planted are the seeds of freedom.......and it is scaring the living daylights of repubs, right-winged, evangelicals....as evidenced by the rabid events this past week....
the last and final barrier is going to be hauled off like so many statues of Lenin, Stalin, Sadaam Husseins, Berlin Walls after 11/4.
I think 11/5 is going to be one hell of a day in many homes and business across the nation.....and I think a lot of ugliness is going to spill over. and that is unfortunate.
{"commentId":3442605,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"susibv"}
- 2 votes
#12 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:03 PM EDT{"commentId":3443839,"authorDomain":"snbeasley"}
Headinthegame?
he hasn't renounced this guy. he wouldn't have renounced Jeremiah Wright either if he hadn't been called on it. you see, Barack doesn't see a problem working with America haters...
where was your head when Obama stated several times that Ayers' acts were dispicable and "no one is above the law...no matter what our views violence was not the answer". In the case of Jeremiah Wright, he left the church because Rev. Wright was unapologetic in the disturbing things that he said, out of character for a pastor, and continued to say them and worse, even when he asked to please be careful about saying such things. He didn't seem to care that he was causing Obama problems and even mocked him. He seized on a moment in the spotlight because of Obama's candidacy and took advantage of him. Sarah still attends the church who invites speakers who are anti-Semitic in their sermons.
Now, your head must have been up in the same place when Gov. Palin fired up a Klan-ish crowd to shout kill him" about Obama, and it's happened more times with her at the podium.
Maybe if you actually get your head in the game you'll learn something.
{"commentId":3443839,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"snbeasley"}
- 4 votes
#13 - Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:41 PM EDT{"commentId":3445092,"authorDomain":"irene498"}
I am an ardent Obama supported, but I used to be complacent about the idea of John McCain winning. They were both good men I thought, who both have good intentions. I don't think that anymore.
I am a Democrat, but I used to respect Republicans.
Now, I just think Republicans are dangerous and crazy.
I hope intelligent Republicans can figure out how to reclaim their party for the sake of our country. Surely they are not all like this?
{"commentId":3445092,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"irene498"}
- 2 votes
#14 - Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:58 AM EDT{"commentId":3445431,"authorDomain":"SuaSponte"}
There are two re-occuring problems. The first is that it keeps being referenced that a story is being made to connect the O to Ayers past actions, that's not being done in any circle. The second being the extreme downplaying of his associations. The associations and issues by themsleves mean little, but anyone with a reasonable amount of common sense would see that when put together offer much room for doubt and offer questionable associations. The denial that the associations go beyond mere passing aquaintances is not only deceptive, but an outright lie. Whenever a questionable association is brought to light, it's met with denying the depth of the relationship, and the denial that there is anything wrong with the associate.
But let's stick to the real issues at hand, like OMG OMG did you see the dress and shoes Palin was wearing...
{"commentId":3445431,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"SuaSponte"}
- 2 votes
#15 - Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:07 AM EDT{"commentId":3445897,"authorDomain":"brkfstclblvr"}
The first is that it keeps being referenced that a story is being made to connect the O to Ayers past actions, that's not being done in any circle
What? That sentence is totally confusing, but if I get what you're saying, that the statements by McCain/Palin are that Obama should not be connected to Ayers past is not what's "being done in any circle" you are wrong. Palin has stated, "Obama is palling around with domestic terrorists." This suggests a current relationship with someone who is a current domestic terrorist, and even goes so far as to suggest he has other terrorist friends!
The associations and issues by themsleves mean little, but anyone with a reasonable amount of common sense would see that when put together offer much room for doubt and offer questionable associations
I resent that, and I believe just the opposite. I believe that anyone with any reasonable amount of common sense would see that this is all a political PLOY. McCain and Palin have plenty of bad associations, and Obama is not bringing them up (except the Keating thing which relates directly to the current economic situation).
Why is McCain just now bringing these to light? He is losing.
The denial that the associations go beyond mere passing aquaintances is not only deceptive, but an outright lie
Really? Do you know Obama? Do you know the ins and outs of his life and know for sure in the depths of your soul that Obama's associations go beyond acquaintances? No media outlet does, so don't use them as a source either.
{"commentId":3445897,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"brkfstclblvr"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":3446293,"authorDomain":"SuaSponte"}
What? That sentence is totally confusing, but if I get what you're saying, that the statements by McCain/Palin are that Obama should not be connected to Ayers past is not what's "being done in any circle" you are wrong.
For crying out loud it's not that difficult. Nobody is saying the O actually had something to do with Ayers terrorists actions. His attempt to pass of their relationship as a blase' passing in the night is outright deceptive. If another entity has questionable ties, but does everything in their power to downplay it, even after there is ample proof the relationship goes beyond casual, that's deception. It doesn't matter what you resent, the fact is their are ties that go beyond casual acquaintance and brings into question the individuals integrity. I'm not say McCain hasn't/doesn't have associations also, the difference being the outright sweeping under the rug that's been going on. I don't have to know the O to read what's been revealed, heck even CNN got in on it. Socializing with individuals who are wholly unrepentant for trying to kill Americans and even boast about not having done enough then trying to underplay the many year close relationship, please.
I will leave you with this, Rezko/Ayers/Wright/Pfleger/Meeks/gazebos/Dohrn/Blagojevich/ACORN/NewParty/voterfraud/Khalidis/JoyceFoundation/AnnenbergChallenge/MinhaHusaini/Mazen Asbahi/Mahdi Bray
{"commentId":3446293,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"SuaSponte"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":3448544,"authorDomain":"UDbmas"}
Apparently facts play little if any part in Bad Karma's research. Apparently there is a disconnect with reality. Apparently Bad Karma has a real problem with a casual relationship between Obama and Ayers WHICH HAS BEEN WELL PROVEN TO BE JUST THAT--CASUAL, as in NOT CLOSE--yet Bad Karma doesn't have a problem with John McCain having been on the advisory board of The U.S Council for World Freedom which was the U.S. chapter of the World Anti-Communist League, an international organization linked to former Nazi collaborators and ultra-right-wing death squads in Central America (especially in Nicaragua). These death squads were responsible for and perpetrators of brutality, rape, torture, and murder, including the rape and murder of American Nuns. McCain only stepped down when questions were being asked about those activities and his connections. And among McCain's Friends, associations, campaign advisers and major financial supporters are G. Gordon Liddy, Charles Keating, Doug Goodyear (lobbyist for Burma's military junta-condemned for human rights violations), Richard Quinn (editor of The Southern Partisan and funder of various anti-minority hate groups), Carl H. Linder Jr. (funder of United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia, labeled as a Foreign Terrorist Organization by the U.S. State Department as an "illegal right-wing anti-guerrilla group tied to many of the country's most notorious civilian massacres."), and so on.
Gee, that makes the Weathermen look like the Boy Scouts in comparison.
{"commentId":3448544,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"UDbmas"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":3490286,"authorDomain":"SuaSponte"}
Apparently facts play little if any part in Bad Karma's research.
Ooooo.
Apparently Bad Karma has a real problem with a casual relationship between Obama and Ayers
Apparently your definition of casual is entirely different than every one else's. Casual? Riiiggght. Causal as sitting on boards witht the individual and funding their causes? The real problem occurs whenever the toes of the Messiah are stepped on.
Senator Obama has claimed that the fact that his initial campaign kickoff for a State Senate seat in 1996 was hosted at the home of Ayers and Dohrn was just a happenstance? CNN exposed that as a lie.
Rezko/Ayers/Wright/Pfleger/Meeks/gazebos/Dohrn/Blagojevich/ACORN/NewParty/voterfraud/Khalidis/JoyceFoundation/AnnenbergChallenge/MinhaHusaini/Mazen Asbahi/Mahdi Bray/
Nope, nothing to see here, quit asking questions.......
{"commentId":3490286,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"SuaSponte"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":3498029,"authorDomain":"irene498"}
And apparently, all the people sooooooo outraged by William Ayers don't have a single thing to say about the Republican Conservative Foundation that hired Ayers for the position where he and Obama met.
{"commentId":3498029,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"irene498"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":3448460,"authorDomain":"margarethageman"}
All I know is Obama has done nothing wrong, he and Ayers are not plotting against the government. Ayers if he was any type of "evil doer" at this point in his life he would be locked up, not being able to teach. I do not feel at all that the person who I was at age 19 is the same person I am today. I feel that we should not judge people by their families, or who they may have been involved with. Judge him on his own merit. And, as I mentioned the article in rolling stone magazine earlier,it does not portray McCain with a good record of merit. This coming from his own peers, and his actions. These are things we all should be judging.
{"commentId":3448460,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"margarethageman"}
- 2 votes
#16 - Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:42 PM EDT{"commentId":3515695,"authorDomain":"SuaSponte"}
Yea, Ayers and Dohrn are "reformed"....it's not like they stated they wished they could have done more (bombings/killings)....oh wait, they did.
And, as I mentioned the article in rolling stone magazine earlier,it does not portray McCain with a good record of merit.
Who'd a thunk that?...
And apparently, all the people sooooooo outraged by William Ayers
So outraged that the media is virtually silent...along with ACORN, Project Vote, etc. etc.
{"commentId":3515695,"threadId":"386194","contentId":"1987270","authorDomain":"SuaSponte"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":3454476,"authorDomain":"andrewwang111"}
{"commentId":3454486,"authorDomain":"andrewwang111"}
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