Do You Find This Vogue Magazine Cover Racist Or Offensive? Some Say It Is

...compared to Dennis and Electra, I just can't get all up in this...

Jack Johnson and Etta and Lucille; now that's sumpin' to consider, considering it was back in the day...

Didj'all get this exited about Seal and Heidi? Now that blew my mind ; didn't that blow your mind babe?

Lucy and Ricky, Chang and and Eng and Adelaide and Sarah, Othello and Desdemona, Michael and Bubbles and Lisa-Marie. This situation shocks you?! Oh puh-leeze. It's a photo-op people...

The cover really reminds me of a comic book cover with two superheroes on it.

This is by far the best angle I've seen on this so far. Kind of comment you wish you could vote for twice.

-Dave

Check it out:

Super heroes

Or this one:

X-men

Agreed. There is nothing wrong here. Heavens, I'm tired of people trying to stir a pot that isn't there......

Lisa,

I could see you and I posing for that magazine...I think we'd look better =)

Nice, an aesthetic appraisal.

well I didn't go into it looking to be offended. I think it's an issue to some people because they want it to be or actively look for things that may make someone frown. If we want to move beyond racial stereotypes and inequities we have to some extent forgive, forget, and move on. Do the figures look like Dennis' King Kong image - yeah... get over it. It's not the implied context and Vouge isn't about making social or political statements - they're fluffy fashion rag with recycled 'secret' sex tips... dissecting a fashion mag beyond aesthetics is near pointless.

It's not the implied context and Vouge isn't about making social or political statements - they're fluffy fashion rag with recycled 'secret' sex tips... dissecting a fashion mag beyond aesthetics is near pointless.

Except that, being the media, that's how stereotypes are condoned, reinforced and perpetuated among readers.

Actually Shawn I have to disagree. Blacks have been historically associated with primitive images, the result of which was not simply aesthetic observation. However while you may wish to observe the aesthetics and forget the history that is certainly your choice and a worthy one from your perspective. For others however, they may notice it and not be that concerned, but there are those who have lived with monkey and ape terminology and taunts IN THEIR LIFETIME - so the forgive and forget motto is always easier to live if you don't have to continually be reminded of it.

Some people will and have the right to be offended by the continued reduction of their race to a sub-human condition. Others will read other things and that perception will be governed by their own experiences. Learning everyone's positioning might shed some light on forgiving and forgetting rather than the blanket assumption that there is only one perception that matters....isn't that how all the trouble starts.

Oh I never said they don't have right to be offended, but what kind of effort beyond walking on egg shells for every race and culture will get rid of stereotypes. I'd argue that to some degree the hypersensitivity to stereotypes perpetuates them.

I do agree that in some cases the forgive and forget motto is hard to live by if you've experienced the negative connotations, GIECO makes a poke at that with the caveman ads, but I'd also note that racism is on a decline and more people actively try to tear down those walls than build them. Being overly defensive in some cases is understandable, but not always progressive towards the common goal. In the grand scheme of things, I think that the common goal is more important than what the idiosyncrasies of a dwindling group are, on both sides - the offenders and the offended.

Also the figures seem off center, it, for me, wants to lean right...

Funny, I was thinking the same thing. I was wondering if there was a reason behind the centering...

Racism is on the public decline, as are stereotypical depictions. The subtlety of this one image negates an overt racist meaning and it can encourage a multitude of readings. What people try to do with those variances of meaning will tell you a lot about racism in society. I suggest racism hasn't gone away, it has just been shooed from the public eye. People will still cling to their subconscious illusions while being continually nurtured by images and popular culture that supply convenient processes of categorisation and understanding. The complexity of intercultural relationships deserves far more depth than the usual racial victim complex accusation along with the we are all one people approach. That in itself reeks of dominance and perpetuates the alienation it seeks to address.

I suggest racism hasn't gone away, it has just been shooed from the public eye. People will still cling to their subconscious illusions while being continually nurtured by images and popular culture that supply convenient processes of categorisation and understanding.

Amen to that! If anyone else believes otherwise they are in cloud cuckoo land. Centuries of racism do not disappear overnight, but they can be slowly eased into the past by mutual respect among peoples. But not with one section of society continuing with certain stereotypes, for whatever reasons, especially for their own commercial gains.

I suggest racism hasn't gone away, it has just been shooed from the public eye.

I don't think that's a good thing.

I'd rather get it out in the open where we can all beat on it with large sticks until it dies a miserable death.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing. I was wondering if there was a reason behind the centering...

well looking at it more, I think the size contrast of the two people, if perfectly centered would make the overall image lean left, so to compensate I think they were set up and shot to look slightly to the right. It still catches me some, but I think I understand why now.

Centuries of racism do not disappear overnight, but they can be slowly eased into the past by mutual respect among peoples. But not with one section of society continuing with certain stereotypes, for whatever reasons, especially for their own commercial gains.

Overall I agree, but when you have an image such as this where the context is not even close to what is perceived you have to wonder if those upset are upset becusae they 'need' to be. At what point do you draw a line and tell a group to just deal with it. Every race, class, occupation and gender have unfair stereotypes associated with it, but really... where is it we draw a line? What constitutes 'mutual respect' and if and when 'mutual respect' is established what keep the bar shifting or keeps the bar from shifting.

I see it like a general hair ball (like the ball could be all people who like cats) with 'fly away' hairs that stick out from the ball and would represent people who not only like cats, but view cats as more valuable then people or that view cats in a manner beyond just liking them. Each hair is a person who has an extreme view or an extreme sensitivity, but they belong to the larger more general group. When one or two of those fly away hairs gets agitated they make a lot of noise about whatever it is and subsequently the general ball gets motivated to act on it. So, with the one or two hairs taht get agitated and rile up the general group is there really a way to move on with mutual respect since those little fly away hairs are quick to temper hard to forgive? I think those fly away hairs shoudl be respected, yes... but given far less credit to claims and worries than what has been. I see those hairs being coddled to more than is needed, but I do agree that they shoudl be considered in the processes of respect.

I'd rather get it out in the open where we can all beat on it with large sticks until it dies a miserable death.

I mostly agree. Your article in the recent past about the Muslims and the unfair treatment they've received the world over was good and had many good points. I even discovered a few things about myself in regards to it. However, putting it out in the open field with no defense what so ever can be disastrous. It sort of implies that the whole person be defeated and not an aspect of the person - knowing how you feel, I would assert that this isn't what you'd like to do (beat the whole person), but at the same time it generally never goes well to embarrass groups of people int he open - they're less likely to listen and respond.

As an example, when I was in the ARMY, my first platoon Sgt would call people out in formation and embarrass the hell out of them (I was one of them, with my drinking problems). I understood that negative reinforcement of this kind was to shame the problem away... and all it did was make me combative and resent the hell out of him. I found his method disrespectful so... I didn't give a @!$%# about what he said. Then, when I became a squad leader and in charge of my own group of men, I'd pull guys aside and reprimand them, never in front of their friends or strangers, or even other people of authority and most of the time they'd listen to me and follow through becuase I established a very high level of respect - which later came back to save my ass one or two times.

Now if someone wants to subject themselves to a public beating or openly admit something, then that's fine, but they put themselves there... but dragging something out in the open very rarely has positive results in the long terms and right now, particularly with this kind of issue, the long term is waht we really need to scope and focus.

In short Dennis - I agree with your idea and purpose, but I disagree with the intended method.

Our brains look for solutions and are quick to chunk information and generalize. To expand thought, we need to use intelligent intervention. Such as, I always felt that Asians were the gentle people - yet, it was an Asian who terrorized West Virginia Tech. The only answer is to know that there is good and bad in every race and gender.

An excellent comment, Mona, especially this statement that encapsulates the stereotypic point very well and puts some common sense squarely on the issue. Thank you.

Excellent comment though I'm not sure the two are inseparable.

While more often than not, stereotypes are interconnected with race - there are stereotypical assertions about Christians, Mexicans, Muslims, types of vehicles, and... clothes. I think they can be separated, but not often.

To use Obama's example of his grandmother being scared as black men walked by - is that racism or stereotyping or both?

stereotyping, I'd say. I could be scared of a Pit-bull but not an Akita (and both... given the right circumstance will tear you to bits). It makes me stereotype the Pit-pull, but it doesn't make me breedist. If I acted out against the Pit-bull ONLY, then that might be breedist. I believe to be racist you have to have an action that accompanies the belief - such as words or something physical. Thoughts of 'racism' really can't be proven without an action to towards the group or individual in that group, so being scared and maybe switching sides of the road isn't what I'd consider racist. They aren't acting out against, rather acting from away. It should be combated for sure, but I see it as less aggressive and not harmful to anyone other than the person who is scared. I used to be terrified of Pit Bulls until I found a stray (which COULD have been very bad for me).

To use Obama's example of his grandmother being scared as black men walked by - is that racism or stereotyping or both?

I'd say stereotyping as well. Generally racism is used to refer to institutional structures to keep one race less well off. With their decline we are seeing the term used for a broader array of things.

I apologise - I am grammatically challenged.

Shawn, I think people can get over things easier when the denial process ends. So many times you hear the argument that minorities perceive racism, when they can document a personal history of it and will still even be able to recall daily incidences of it. Getting over something that ends is bloody easy, getting over something that happens because of ignorance, denial, subconscious associations, outright bigotry, jokes, stereotypes, taunts - well that is a little bit harder. Even when you tell people stories of outright racism the people you tell will redefine it in a non racist context and even when they can't, they will shrug it off and suggest it is only one or two people. People of colour will tell you - perhaps one or two people a day gets really tiring.

Oh I don't deny that racism exists. It defiantly does, and just because a few in the group see it in certain areas doesn't mean that they're just finding an excuse - it needs to be looked at on e case by case basis. I'm also not saying that the few who do see it or perceive it are wrong to challenge it, but I think when looking at the situation we all should look from both sides of it.

I do think there are two sides. One side of this argument points to positive readings and the other side points out the very real affect of subliminal advertising that informs existing derogatory stereotypes. Now that both sides have been heard people can learn from each side and voila - informed communication and understanding - hopefully moving towards a more conscious effort at real appreciation of difference and respect.

But seriously when one side just shouts down the other side with cries of "get over it you perpetual victims" I guess the invalidation of the 'other side of opinion" belies the communication and learning process of different people understanding each other.

I can see both sides of the argument have validity and inform me in my appreciation of intercultural relationships. When you degrade the other side for the expression of their reactions and their experiences, surely you fall into the trap of trying to assert only one dominant mode of thinking and understanding.

It is a bit rich to then ask people to consider both sides of an issue.

That's very kind of you Mona, thank you. You must never be afraid to put your opinions forward simply because that is your right. And it is also the right of the receiver to accept or reject it. I think we often hesitate to express our opinions because we fear that rejection, but everything is part of our development process, both the positives and the negatives.

Welcome to the Vine and hope it is as enjoyable for you as it is for me.:o)