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SCOTT (SCOOP) BUTKI

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A cynical idealist; To Read Me Is to Know Me (Mostly)
Articles Posted: 1426  Links Seeded: 10249
Member Since: 2/2007  Last Seen: 5/16/2012

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My Retrospective Upon Reaching the 200 Article Mark

Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:42 PM EDT
technology, newsvine, cash, ethics, lvs0407, sbutki-memoir, killfile, retrospective, newsvine-retrospective
By Scott (Scoop) Butki
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All the cool kids like Viki have retrospectives and I've had retrospective-envy for a few weeks. But I didn't have anything useful or intelligent to say.
Then I remembered I never let that stop me before. If I had would I have written 200 stories?:)
But seriously, I've had a few thoughts, moments of self-doubt, questions about Newsvine community norms, etc in the last 24 hours so I thought I'd jot them down

3 (well, 3.5) Thoughts/Questions Upon Reaching My Two-Month/200 Article Mark

1) I know from reading through older stories (yes, I read those in my spare time) that many have had the same frustration as me, namely that the articles you put the most time and energy get no votes or comments (excepting your obligatory tracking comment which I address as #2) while the light piece with a topic like "What are you reading?" gets 100 votes and comments.

My guess/concern is some see topics like the more recent "What Are You Watching" and think, "Oh, god, another fluffylight piece by Scott." And just in case anyone thinks that I want to say that
a) I like to think topics like that work as fun community-building articles and
b) I try to make sure that for every light piece like that I write something serious like Reflecting On Car Crashes, as a form of, say, Newsvine penance. Not sure if that makes sense but that's how I rationalize it.

2) I realize I have a problem. A writing problem, to be precise. Some people drink too much - I think I write too much. Accepting you have a problem, they say, is an important first step. My name is Scott and I'm writing too many articles for people to keep up with, let alone leave comments.

So I hereby vow I am going to write at a bit of a slower pace, seed more and comment even more. (it's amazing how many good things I found to seed when reading the weekends newspapers today)

And yes I recognize the irony of writing an article in which I state I will write less articles.

2.5 - I fear that the number of articles I've already posted is both an accomplishment and a problem, an attraction and a deterrent, a yin and a yang, a Cash and a hot-chick, etc..

Here's the glitch: I came in here to this community, all fired up after reading about Killfile and Newsvine and, with
Newsvine admin's blessing, re-posting in my first few weeks about 50 interviews and reviews I'd previously written
for a site that shall not be named. And those articles collected a grand total of about...oh..maybe 8 responses. I was distraught, at first. Does this group have some kind of antipathy toward books?

No, gradually I realized two things:
First, if you don't write good tags not only will it be hard for others to find your pieces but it can even become hard to find your own pieces. Thus I began putting and as tags and (in the last week) writing an index
So that was my own fault for not understanding the importance and value of tags and suffering for it.

Second, if you don't have what I've seen some call "an obligatory tracking comment" it's like your article doesn't exist. If this was told to me as I joined Newsvine I missed it. Even if it was it needs to be stated with more prominence
because if you write something and others don't know it's there it is sort of pointless. So if there is one thing I'd like to tell Newsvine staff it is is to emphasize that point as people join.

I learned all this AFTER I wrote those 50 stories, thus sparking a dilemma: Do I leave those 50 articles without comment in place? Do I delete them, with plans to re-publish them one day during a dry writing spell, complete with
proper tags and a comment? I don't know whether that second option is proper, ethical, against community norms or what which is one reason I mention it. I do know, from trying it, that if you delete it the number of articles you write drops and so that at least eases my concern that I'd be artificially inflating my stats as suggesting I wrote more than I did. So it was that I watched my articles published number go down from 205 to 195 and back to 200 in recent days.

3) Links, it seems to me, are a gray area. Obviously spamming is bad. And it doesn't make sense to say no linking
from one article to another. But am I alone in hesitating when, say, linking from something someone else wrote to something I wrote, knowing I may see the connection but someone else may not?

Let me give two examples:
Last week, amid all of his excellent seeding and writing about the Virginia Tech shooting, Killfile seeded this link about crazy hate-filled Fred Phelps and his plans to disrupt the Virginia Tech funerals. I had written a long thoughtful piece about Phelps and so as I watched the number of comments go past 100 I had two thoughts. One, obviously, selfishly, I admit was jealousy but I'm sure people have that all the time. The second, related thought was "I wonder if the people reading this article realize I wrote a related article?" This then was the dilemma - is it appropriate to post a link, explaining how it's related, from Killfile's article to mine? Or is that too self-promotional? I did post the link but later thought maybe that was bad.
I ended up addressing it another way, linking to my Phelps piece as I wrote a piece about death and grief, where I tried - with limited success - to tie together thoughts about my dad's death, my uncle's brain tumor and surgery, the Virginia tech shootings and how Fred Phelps hate seems to be making life more unbearable for everyone." For the record I received no more comments to my Phelps piece and I then, being a former Catholic who thinks too much, felt selfish for pimping my Phelps piece in the first place.

Incidentally I just went to Killfile's author page to find a link to the Phelps piece and found myself distracted by an article he seeded about Al Gore where I started making a comment and found myself - uh oh - about to link to something else I've written and the irony hit me.
So do me a favor please and look at the two pieces and tell me if I did wrong. Because I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't know when it is and isn't ok to pimp link (with explanation) from someone else's article to one of your own.
An argument could be made that it all comes down to intent. When I posted the link was my intent to contribute to
the conversation and/or to draw people to my article to which I'd answer both.

A comparatively easier issue is when one links from something you wrote, say, my fictional piece about the conservative clan taking Killfile hostage to a more recent fictional attempt like the gong show one. Is that appropriate? Is that self-promotional? Spamming? I started to refer to it earlier as self-spamming but concluded that it sounded like something illegal in Texas.

So, anyway, those are a few thoughts I have at this point.

I just want to close - cue the mushy music - by saying I love this place. I've been in a number of communities, some public, some private - and this is my favorite so far. I was a little concerned when I posted a few fictional works that I was doing something inappropriate but when given positive feedback I wrote more.

And when people will ask, as they inevitably will, where were you when you heard about the Virginia Tech shooting I will try to figure out how to explain that I was in a computer lab, oblivious to the news (or at least trying to block
it out until I finished my story) on a green-tea-and-chocolate binge, writing a zany story about Cash et al kidnapping and torturing Killfile. At some point mid-story I think I heard others talking about the shootings and I knew that if I focused on the news I would probably break down and cry and I didn't want that, at least not yet. What I wanted was to try to make a few people laugh, or at least smile.

It was with some hesitancy that I posted that story. Minutes later I realized that the main character in my story, Killfile, was busy writing about the terrible events in Virginia Tech and I worried I'd just done the most tacky thing ever by trying to write humor during such a bad time. But gradually people started to read what I wrote and write positive things and I felt a bit better. That's why, you might notice, I wrote a bunch of apologies at the end of that story. It was a pre-emptive strike against anyone offended.

Anyway, thanks for everything so far and I hope the rest of my time here is as enjoyable and intellectually stimulating as these first two months. Now go out there and write, seed, think and laugh.

And with that I bid you good night.

And remember, when thinking about jerks like Phelps and the Virginia Tech shooter, "Don't let the bastards get you down."

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  • Public Discussion (16)
Scott (Scoop) Butki

This is my latest Last Viner Standing and my only meta piece in the competition

  • 3 votes
Reply#1 - Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:00 AM EDT
Viki Babbles Gonia

As far as leaving links to your own work in someone else's seed/article, I believe it is generally tolerated as long as the linked story is relevant to the topic at hand. I'd be wary about doing it too much, however.

As far as the posting of your first 50 articles, you may have still been in the Greenhouse at the time, and if that's the case, they would never make it to the front page (in theory).

When you write too much, it does make it difficult for people to read it all. At the end of the night, before I go to bed, I usually clear out my conversation tracker just so it's not huge when I get up in the morning. I can only follow so many of my fellow Newsviners. I'd also be willing to bet that some users tune out those who are publishing a lot of articles on a daily basis. It might begin to feel spam-like, or at least, overwhelming.

The "obligatory tracking comment" is not really obligatory. I use it myself, and I do it so that my articles or seeds appear in the conversation trackers of those on my friends list. I won't pretend that I do it for any other reason, I will admit it feels a little unethical in a way, and I will apologize. But I'll still do it. And I'm glad when those on whose friend's list I appear do it, because I'm far more likely to find and read it. I try to go through my watchlist at least once a week, but I love the conversation tracker.

Anyway, congratulations on 200 articles!

  • 1 vote
Reply#2 - Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:38 AM EDT
Scott (Scoop) Butki

Ok. Thanks. I'll be careful on some of those fronts.

Evil twin aka Viki, I've lost track of whose turn it is to be evil. I'm in a good mood - though I've only been awake for 11 minutes - so do you want to be evil this week?

  • 2 votes
#2.1 - Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:01 PM EDT
Viki Babbles Gonia

Sure! I've already got a head start, so I'll just keep on doing what I've been doing.

  • 1 vote
#2.2 - Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:28 PM EDT
Reply
Scott (Scoop) Butki

You may notice I signed off with the comment, "Don't let the bastards get you down."

I decided then, as I was finishing this up, that I wanted to know who first said that. I did some googling and kept finding it credited to Kris Kristofferson. That can't be right, I thought. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I decided it was midnight and I had more important things to do, like sleep, so I left it uncredited. Better that than get it wrong.

  • 2 votes
Reply#3 - Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:29 PM EDT
Aine MacDermot

My problem, like Viki, is that I can't keep up with the content of everybody on my friends list, and then there are all those Viners out there who aren't on my friends list whose content is also of interest... there's just more content than I can humanly deal with. Even my own column with all the seeds is, I suspect, too much for many people to keep up with, although I try to seed things that are interesting (or at least relevant to one or more of the many Groups I belong to).

Weirdly enough, I'll sometimes come across "old" content that is intensely interesting and wonder how the heck I missed it when it was posted. :/

And then, there's the Conversation Tracker... which doesn't always work 100% in notifying me of replies. I've gone back and found that people have replied in a thread and I never even saw that in the Tracker. Same is true of the Watchlist.

I think I need some clone Aines to keep up with it all.

  • 5 votes
Reply#4 - Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:03 PM EDT
Scott (Scoop) Butki

Note to self: For next Newsvine fiction story include some clone Aines.

  • 2 votes
#4.1 - Tue May 8, 2007 12:13 AM EDT
ShaunV

there's just more content than I can humanly deal with

Yes. Lots of interesting stuff, but very difficult to keep up with on a daily basis.

  • 1 vote
#4.2 - Tue May 8, 2007 9:51 AM EDT
Reply
Scott (Scoop) Butki

I can't keep up with other people's stuff either which was another reminder to me to sloooow down.

  • 2 votes
Reply#5 - Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:28 PM EDT
Scott (Scoop) ButkiDeleted
Scott (Scoop) Butki

My new group, Newsvine Readers Picks, has opened. To join click here.
Or go to this article,
for more information.

  • 1 vote
Reply#7 - Thu May 3, 2007 11:59 PM EDT
Viki Babbles Gonia

Excellent! I'm going to go send my request to join now!

  • 1 vote
#7.1 - Fri May 4, 2007 12:18 AM EDT
Reply
Scott (Scoop) Butki

I wasn't sure where to put this so I'll put it here.

So I know I shouldn't care about the leaderboard but every so often someone like Cash will mention that I'll soon be at its top. And I'm not good at many things so the idea of having perhaps found my niche here is appealing.

I wrote about how I realized belatedly that I should have been voting for myself and others and went back and added votes in some discussions.

Then I decided yesterday I needed to post fewer articles and maybe seed a bit more.

Then tonite I stopped and printed out the leaderboard for the week and for three months and this is what I discovered:
My ranking for the week had been hovering over the weekend between #2 and #3 but dropped in the
last 24 hours to #7. That'll teach me to sleep in:)

But I should add that I'm watching this not just as a vanity or ego exercise but also out of some fascination about how this all plays together.
For example I noticed a name at #2, BeeVine, who I'd never even heard of but after some looking saw that she was so high - despite having less than 10 seeds and no articles - because her seeds were incredibly popular.
This seemed to prove that there is a huge level of luck at play here - if a seed takes off you get comments, votes, popular contributions, etc.

And there's a Newsvine tipping point too. I just finished reading the Tipping Point and for my review I'm thinking about focusing on what the tipping point is here with votes. But I digress.

I think where my ranking will go higher is not in the weekly board - which is fine because I don't care whether I'm the flavor of the week - but in the three month one and eventually the all-time one. I'm currently at 69 or so (one of my favorite numbers) for all-time, the lowest numberso far, and at #6 for three months (the lowest number so far.)

Looking at the columns I realized that I have indeed, as many remarked, some in a chastising way, I wrote more article than anyone during that period. I seed less than some but more than most. I have lots of popular contributions.

What's killing me is a lack of popular comments.

I had already decided I wanted to try to write less and comment more so it was interesting that the statistics seem to be suggesting that if I wanted to be a Newsvine "leader" I needed to do exactly that.

So look for me to be engaging in conversation more, trying to have more substantive conversations and comments and cutting back on things like linking from other writers to me (i'm figuring out gradually when that is and isn't ok) and accidently sending articles to the wrong groups and instead
trying to say intelligent things.

Feel free to invite me to conversations via email or post and I'll try to join in where and when I can.

Thanks to everyone who has helped me so far.

  • 2 votes
Reply#8 - Tue May 29, 2007 12:36 AM EDT
Scott (Scoop) Butki

Also, I've been trying to give back to the community some too, with attempts at helping other writers
and
helping newcomers adjusting to writing, editing and deleting posts

and helping people learn how to write letters to Playboy/Penthouse... well,ok, maybe that last one was less helpful than intended but you get the idea.

Also I set up a few groups - on documentaries, personal narratives and fiction writers Michael Moore - in an attempt to help organize some things.

Hopefully that has helped me give something back, and when I say back I don't mean in the way that sir-mix-a-lot does.

  • 1 vote
#8.1 - Tue May 29, 2007 1:41 AM EDT
Reply
Scott (Scoop) Butki

Scoop's log. June 14. Reached #2 on the weekly chart, the highest ever. My ego is so big right now
it makes Godzilla have size issues.
Thanks, everyone.

  • 1 vote
Reply#9 - Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:23 AM EDT
Viki Babbles Gonia

Woo Hoo! Nice job, Scott.

  • 2 votes
#9.1 - Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:20 AM EDT
Scott (Scoop) Butki

Thank you!

  • 1 vote
#9.2 - Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:14 AM EDT
Reply
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